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geoffkait
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I must be doing something right

If you say you don't like the sound or feel of earphones I must be doing something right. Of course you don't like the sound or feel, that's because you always disagree with anything that goes against the covenants of TunnelLand. One advantage of age, pretty boy, is knowing when someone is blowing smoke up my ass.

Cheerios,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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back to the OP

Hi Readers

Thought we should get back on the subject. There are some good listening sessions going on, om TuneLand right now where people are playing with different tweaks and explaining these sessions within the context of focusing on different parts of the stage and the contents. One in particular where a listener is using a Schumann Resonance device and getting 3 different results on 3 different recordings. A mix of good & bad.

Second on another thread here a member explains what tuning is and what to listen for. All good stuff to learn what is going on with your soundstage and audio signal.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Back on something, just not the subject
michael green wrote:

Hi Readers

Thought we should get back on the subject. There are some good listening sessions going on, om TuneLand right now where people are playing with different tweaks and explaining these sessions within the context of focusing on different parts of the stage and the contents. One in particular where a listener is using a Schumann Resonance device and getting 3 different results on 3 different recordings. A mix of good & bad.

Second on another thread here a member explains what tuning is and what to listen for. All good stuff to learn what is going on with your soundstage and audio signal.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/[/quote]

Well, actually that's not the getting back to the subject. Why not post this under the appropriate subject, which is most likely Schumann Frequency thread or perhaps a subject under Tweaks. I don't blame you though for ignoring my calling you out. What could you possibly say?

Side note - I bet you thought this was going to be easy, selling your junk on an audio web site.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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All I know is...

while your here faning the trolling flames, we on TuneLand had a fantastic weekend exploring great music together. We started with Ziggy Marley, then onto Lauryn Hill. We talked about the Jamaican "sound". After we got into "Raising Sand by Robert Plant and Alison Krauss". We explored the unique drumming and drum itself, along with my experience with the "Rolling Bomber".

You mentioned "selling my junk". Well it actually has been quite easy, and I have been enjoying members of the Stereophile forum coming to TuneLand to share their music with us, as we share back in the spirit of listening and community of music. As we together tune our systems, the sharing of music becomes more rich with every post.

So geoff, what can I tell you. I guess nothing more than while you sit there with your portable sports sony walkman cassette player, saying it is only a point you are trying to proove, and you not having an actual in-room audio system for over 8 years now "never looking back" according to you, we hope you the best, and invite you to join us in the exploration side of the audiophile hobby. Big soundstages, great music and all done in the spirit of sharing.

So yes, it has been easy and a great deal of fun with the exception of the flames, trolling and lack of listening on this forum from those doing the trolling.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Oh, brother, here we go again!

Yes, I know you keep saying that. Why attack my low mass systems, though? I'm pretty sure you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Low mass, as in 6 ounces. Count 'em! Now, I can certainly understand your continuing attacks, Thou shalt put no Gods before me and all that Ethan Winer jazz. But by attacking portables you actually undermine your whole freewheeling Low Mass thing. Go ahead, admit you're wrong. Feel better.

Let's take a moment and review the bidding. What makes my tiny 6 ounce portable system so superior? Well, let's start off with this: it's not actually the lack of mass. In reality, no, not your reality, the real reality, it's because there is no House AC to screw up the sound, no power cords to screw up the sound, no interconnects to, you guessed it, screw up the sound. And no fuses to screw up the sound, no speaker cables to screw up the sound, no speakers to screw up the sound, no speaker magnets especially, to screw up the sound. No transformers with their toxic magnetic fields to screw up the sound. Yes, you can move them somewhere else and pretend they're not there but they're still in the system. Hel-loo! And you're not really reducing the system mass anyway, by moving the transformers, you're REDISTRIBUTING the mass. Doh!

And no big capacitors to screw up the sound. And no internal wiring which, like cabling, is installed in the wrong direction half the time anyway. No crossovers to screw up the sound. And finally, I have no room anomalies to have to deal with, you know, room anomalies that screw up the sound. How do I love portables? Let me count the ways.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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portable cassette players with earphones in the acoustic section

Geoff, I think it's great that you love your portables, and I think sometimes you miss the point I bring up on most of my threads. If I was going to talk headphones, I'd be in the headphone section. Earphones, in the earphone section, portables in the portable cassette player section.

The reason I make a point to keep reminding you and the readers is pretty basic. I'm talking about (as most of us are) in-room audio systems. On this particular thread we happen to be in the "Room Tuning & Acoustics" section. I'm sure if someone here wants to look into a portable cassette player as their system, they know where to look you up. However on many of these threads, listening to a guy who uses earphones is not exactly what the doctor ordered as people are exploring their in-room soundstages.

This thread for example, I would like to go a little deeper than someone sitting there with his portable cassette player, with the options of regular and bass boost. I realize that this is your level of serious listening, but I would ask that you consider the other hobbyist here that may not see a portable sony walkman cassette player as an in-room setup.

So, trust me when we read you saying "I'm pretty sure you're just shooting yourself in the foot." most audiophiles are probably wondering what a guy who hasn't had an in-room system in over eight years telling us to ditch our in-room setups, is aiming that gun at? LOL

Sorry but it looks like a bad joke. If you can't understand the OP or direction of a thread or even what section you are in, you might want to ask, cause a guy on stereophile holding up his portable cassette player on threads with in-room systems looks pretty foolish.

It's not a good look on you, and it's not a good look for stereophile.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Turn on, tune in, drop dead, a Tuner's lament

Oh, brother, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed again? Turn on, tune in, drop dead. Now, that's a good look for you!

 photo image_2_zpshq021c00.jpeg

Cheerios,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

rrstesiak
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Freedom of Speech

Freedom of Speech. (n) "the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.[as protected by the First Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of America]"

All:

I just have to gently remind *everyone* that freedom of opinion and ideas are WELCOME here....are they not?

Are we in the United States or an old fashioned East German Police State?!

I know some listeners, myself included, may get off topic or even angry, but this should be also a place where ALL opinions are welcome.

Specifically referring to Geoff, I think he is just attempting to make us all STOP and LISTEN and have OPEN MINDS to an entirely different way of experiencing music.

As for posting to the "wrong places'; while that is technically correct, perhaps some listeners are just trying to gain a larger audience with their passionate, unique opinions as to what kind of stereo equipment to use to enjoy music to their best liking. I find I disagree with some of Geoff's posts, but I also find myself very seriously enlightened by many other posts of his. A recent example is when Geoff pointed me to an old thread about isolating transformers with Mu metal. I think that is nothing short of brilliant; and it may even lead to me implementing Mu metal in my DAC vs. taking the thing apart... though I will probably test both methods. At any rate, I hope other listeners can respect what I am communicating.

Respectfully,

Ron

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What we have is failure to communicate

The fact is I actually do not promote my portable systems. I really have no interest in others using them. I'm serious. I've never suggested anyone copy what I do. This makes it all the more laughable that Mr. Green would get his knickers in a twist so often over the portables. My guess is it's because they are my portables. The reason I began the discussion about the portable cassette player was to use it as an example of how unmusical CDs are as a medium. And how much more dynamic range tapes have vice CDs, which actually was the impetus for my thread, "You want to talk about dynamics." So it turns out the cassette player and the portable CD player are excellent examples of how far you can go with Mr. Greed's own concept - the low mass system! Hel-looo! Yet, at the same time Mr. Greed still thinks transformers are bad for the sound because they're heavy. Lol. The tiny portables are what happens when you take the whole low mass concept to the limit, no? Anyone who doesn't see the irony of that please raise your hand. A further irony perhaps, when Ron says I have a unique voice or some such peculiar thing is that not only are my ideas not unique or peculiar, I am the goddamn establishment!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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in the middle, I see again LOL

Ron, you put yourself in the middle again!! LOL what's up with that LOL?

I believe we all know what freedom of speech is, but we also know what internet trolling is.

If the goal was to bring the stereophile forum down a couple of notches, good job!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

rrstesiak
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I love America

All:

I think hearing every reasonable opinion vs. censorship brings open mindedness and dynamics. Sure, with that comes some debates and even frustration and anger sometimes. But if I am learning NEW, VALID approaches to all things audiophile from pretty much most members here, CENSORING even just one would be a great loss.

Michael:

Yes, trying to be Switzerland is very difficult! :)

Respectfully,

Ron

ps. I am not sure why my statements are upsetting anyone. so I'll stop posting in this thread. I've communicated my message and clarified it.

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interesting spin

Well than we disagree on reasonable Ron. I don't see internet trolling as acceptable or reasonable, and I personally won't be told to back off when I am looking out for the best interest of the hobbyist. I don't see someone saying they would never recommend something, turning around and selling it on the internet as reasonable. I see it as a crime. I don't see or make excuses for inappropriate behavior when the same info can be given without the flaming of others.

As I have mentioned to you Ron, I'm not upset at you, but this doesn't stop me for voicing what I and thousands of others see as right & wrong. You yell "CENSORING". Well for the last 15 or so years others have been yelling "FRAUD". You yell "NEW". Maybe you should treat it as you being a "NEWBIE" and let "VALID" take it's propper course. Facts & experience my friend, facts & experience! If you go around as a newbie stamping "VALID" on everything, how in the world do you know if you are doing a service or disservice for the rest of the hobby? Ron this is a hobby of doing, and not only that but levels of doing. Sorry but talk is just that, and in a hobby of doing it should be treated as that. Now when you "DO" these tweaks you enter the right to give your coronations according to what ever level your then soundstage is giving you. At that time, according to you, you will have achieved (earned) the right to that opinion. And if your faithful to this hobby you will give that opinion based on your knowledge and experience at that time.

BUT

There's always a but. If you marginalize what hobbyist have done, and the histories they have built for many years, as they too are judging the products, methods and the people of this hobby, you are not doing you or they any worthwhile service. Being open minded my friend goes much futher than convincingly well practiced up "TALKERS" on this or any other forum. If I or anyone can't go to those pages on referencing the music and make their stand, they my friend have another agenda than listening and are certainly more close minded than those who share in the music itself.

You choose to live in the world of hypothetical calling it "VALID" and "OPEN MINDED" go right ahead, but don't call us who have earned it "CENSORING". We have earned the right to be at our level of reputation, just as those who are talkers have earned the right to be at that level. As well you having the right to be a Newbie. But when you throw them all together without the appropiate titles and levels you allow a lot of fat & cornmeal to be thrown in with the meat.

Remember this, and this is true in business, education or any ladder. The only time it looks like everyone is at the same level is when you yourself are the newbie. When you see people like geoff puting down TuneLand or any place with higher learning and more advanced "PRACTICES" you know they have not reached the level of which they themselves are puting down.

judging is based on practice (practical application)
put downs are based on human insecurities

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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Live and learn

Michael wrote,

"Remember this, and this is true in business, education or any ladder. The only time it looks like everyone is at the same level is when you yourself are the newbie. When you see people like geoff puting down TuneLand or any place with higher learning and more advanced "PRACTICES" you know they have not reached the level of which they themselves are puting down."

So let me get this straight. Michael is claiming that Rip Off Report and The James Randi Educational Foundation AND by extension TunnelLand are Institutions of Higher Learning? Well, you could knock me over with a feather. I was SURE they were all frauds and liars and run by doofus windbags. Oh, well, live and learn. Lol

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

rrstesiak
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Reply to Michael

Michael:

You bring up very good points; my only confusion is where you think I am "lumping you together" with any particular member, as well as putting you down; and certainly never told you to "Back Off": that would indeed be way out of line. By now you should know I support your approach and voice it freely; thanks to that First Amendment!

As for "titles"; however, that is very confusing. I hold a PhD in a field based on Theoretical Physics...should you call me Dr.? How would you propose I address you? I find that non-productive here on Stereophile.

As for "doing", I have! May I refer you to my two separate "Reference Sessions" as well as my extensive posts on achieving the "3D SoundStage"? Are those not "Doing"? I am confused. What would you prefer I do; if not do?

rrstesiak wrote:

Reference Listen: Supertramp: Brother Where You Bound

rrstesiak wrote:

Let's do some referencing: Miles Davis : So What?

rrstesiak wrote:

How I achieved an excellent 3D Sound Stage

and..

rrstesiak wrote:

Critique My System!

I found those ALL as "doing" and productive; and judging by the many replies, so did a lot of other listeners.

I am not speaking to any member in particular when I write my statements of Freedom of Speech, anti-censorship, etc..I am speaking to ALL members.
You are certainly free to give your opinion and label me continuously as a "newbie", as I am free to also agree your website is in fact a cool place.

To be absolutely truthful, the ONLY reason I brought up this whole censorship thing is that I have in fact received some very valuable input from a particular member. Just the other day, they recommended Mu metal to isolate my power transformer within my DAC....and they also pointed me to a well written article that even followed the scientific method proving Mu metal's effectiveness in positively changing the music/sound without modifying the aesthetic. In addition to Mu metal, some other topics they brought up are Schumann Resonators and the possible effects of Quantum Mechanics on audio. Fascinating stuff! Are you saying all of that is invalid? If so, that's cool...you are "allowed" thanks to Amendment 1! As you can imagine though, those topics intrigued me. If we were to "kick the member off" or otherwise sanction them, I would have never come across the article on Mu metal and many other posts I found valuable. Perhaps I in fact also find a loose sort of fellowship in some members having a physics background...that is very rare and I value it. I would hate to see them go...that would be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

So, in closing, I leave it to you to just stop replying to anyone if you are upset by them; as you have recommended I do...that is wise advice. Can't you see that members sometimes do have very valuable input; even if it is buried in what is labelled as "trolling"? I have by now gotten used to the "trolling" on here...and have acquired the skill of picking out the diamonds from the rough....My past intent was not to single you out, and apologize if you feel that way. And yes, we are friends and I am glad to make your acquaintance and look forward to learning from you and others here and on Tuneland! Again, please remember I agree you do bring up very valid and valuable points....thanks to that First Amendment!

Respectfully,

Ron

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Stan Getz

Hi Ron

Do you like Stan Getz? Just put on "Bossas And Ballads, The Lost Sessions"

I see some on TuneLand have responded to your Mu-metal question.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

rrstesiak
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reply to michael

Michael:

I'm more into Dave Koz, and in fact am listening to "I Believe"...it is backed with Spanish Guitar...very chill.. but I do respect Stan...

It is refreshing to again talk about MUSIC!

I am trying to come up with a good piece to Reference but am stuck...like "Listener's Block"..lol... do you have any recommendations? While my vinyl and certainly CD collections are very limited, I do have a sizable FLAC collection.

Thanks for the change of topic back to productive listening!

:)

Kind Regards,

Ron

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Mu metal
michael green wrote:

Hi Ron

Do you like Stan Getz? Just put on "Bossas And Ballads, The Lost Sessions"

I see some on TuneLand have responded to your Mu-metal question.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/[/quote]
I'd be quite interested in discussions here regarding mu metal or at least some cut and paste of questions on TuneLand regarding mu metal. This forum is where all the action on mu metal is, not TuneLand, TunnelLand, whatever. As your humble mu metal guru all questions should be perhaps directed to your humble scribe, here on Stereophile Central. My undergrad thesis that I was selected to present at the National AIAA conference that year was a preliminary design of a sputtering engine for interplanetary travel that employed a highly magnetic metal crystal bombarded by high energy Xenon ions.

The only good magnetic field is a Zero Gauss magnetic field.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Mu Metal

Geoff:

Can you re-post the link to that article about someone testing Mu Metal shielding a transformer that you posted recently?

I'm afraid I can't find it and I found it very valuable,

Thanks In Advance,

Ron

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Mu metal thread
rrstesiak wrote:

Geoff:

Can you re-post the link to that article about someone testing Mu Metal shielding a transformer that you posted recently?

I'm afraid I can't find it and I found it very valuable,

Thanks In Advance,

Ron

I see why folks sometimes complain about the lack of Search capability on the forum. ;-)
The mu metal thread is at:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/tuning

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Tweaks section

Hi Ron,

If the link given by Geoff does not get you there, try the following.

Go to the Tweaks & Tips section and scroll down to the separate heading Tweaking and Tuning started by wkhanna in May 14 2014. And then start at Page 2 and read down and you will find Bill’s (wkhanna) description of what he did.

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

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There a many secrets regarding mu metal that are not addressed

Hi all, my last post contained a link to the very first page of the discussion whereas my previous linked dropped you down onto Page 2. Just in case someone wanted the background info. But I agree with May, Page 2 cuts right to the chase.

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

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Previous Link

Hi Geoff,

I was not able to access via the link you gave Geoff, and that is why I described the convoluted way I had to do it - in case Ron had the same problem.

Regards,
May Belt,
PWB Electronics.

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All

All:

I did find Geoff's original link... it was in my "How I achieved a 3D soundstage"...I'll repost it here:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/tuning?page=1

Kind Regards,

Ron

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The good stuff starts on Page 1
rrstesiak wrote:

All:

I did find Geoff's original link... it was in my "How I achieved a 3D soundstage"...I'll repost it here:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/tuning?page=1

Kind Regards,

Ron

Oh, I dunno, I tested the link, the link I posted today, and it works for me. Having taken the opportunity to review the first page again I can wholeheartedly recommend the initial discussion, the one on Page 1, as the struggle for domination of the thread develops nicely and the familiar, "who's on first" scenario plays out as per usual...

Curiously, my original link shows Page 1 on the URL even though it's actually Page 2. Oh, well....

The really bizarre thing of course is both the dudes from Pittsburgh disappeared off the radar screen immediately after publishing their results with cork and mu metal. Or maybe it was right after the Modern Times fiasco which was around the same time. It was my treated Modern Times CD that Bill's dog was presumably licking clean on Page 1 of the cork and mu metal thread. Good times.

:-)

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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thread on Tuneland on shielding
geoffkait
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I don't get it

Why should we have to go over to TunnelLand to discuss mu metal? We're having the discussion right here on Stereophile Forum. If you don't want to discuss mu metal here we'll certainly understand, I doubt you can contribute to the conversation frankly. Sometimes it's best to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt. If you're having trouble trolling for new recruits can I suggest taking out an ad in Stereophile? You know, something like Uncle Mike Wants You! With a pic of you and your long flowing hair, of course.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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TuneLand

Thanks for the invite geoff but the threads here often don't share enough info for us as they very rarely have listeners doing actual listening tests. In the past 2 years here I've seen maybe 10 times people did listening tests along with the supportive info. On Tuneland you'll find 10 tests a day, on an active day. So it only stands to reason that listeners might want to use TuneLand as another source of info.

Also as of late you have trolled these threads so much that the conversations turn into more about your trolling than actual listening to music. I have been told that if I want to read here I will have to suffer through the weeding to get to any info, if indeed any info happens. For example, it's been well over a year since the talks on Mu-metal got started here. I've covered more info on TuneLand in less than a half a day.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t312-to-shield-or-not-to-shield

Geoff only the people here can decide how involved they are going to get. Hopefully having TuneLand as well will encourage those interested to step up to the plate more. It seems to be working. Already since I posted on TuneLand early this morning there has been more people coming up to read about shielding than here. I would assume at least some of those folks are visiting from this forum.

If you start a shielding thread or Mu-metal thread I'll be happy to link to it.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

geoffkait
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What are you smoking?

I could not care less what TunnelLand might have to say on the subject of mu metal. I'm way ahead of you. I do actually believe that you wrote a lot. If quantity was prized you'd win the gold medal.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

michael green
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care less LOL, we know ya love us

Come on there geoffy boy, sure you do. Don't forget we have a forum reader map and can see you up there all the time checking things out. You don't have to be shy about us we're not going to bite. See that little thing that says "who is online"? When you come up I can zoom right in on your apartment complex :)

BTW had 55 listeners reading us at the same time the other night.

So you might call us TunnelLand but we know you really love us. Lets see, "TunnelLand, geoff's secret entrance to his beloved TuneLand". Come on give us a hug there little feller. Let's go spin a cassette together. I'll even put on some earphones.

I don't smoke but thanks for the offer! Our high is a big soundstage and actually doing the things we talk about. And interesting concept to you I know, but many audiophiles like to explore the music and systems they listen to. Of course as I have said, when we get around to portable cassette players we're going to give you a call.

I like your touch on the schumann resonances thread lol. You talk about the absolutes of it, even yelling at the rest of us, then you tell us you've never even explored the theory or technology in person. What was it you said, something like you never did it but thought the idea was interesting lol. Oh boy I bet NASA loved you. BTW I've never seen NASA on any of your resume links. You did some top secret stuff for them in the 70's right?

you could create the artifical testing sight

your new website ad "stuff I yell about but never tried" oh and "the people I hate because they asked me to explain myself"

nah just go put on some music and get happy there young man :)

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

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thread

this thread may be the weirdest thing I ever read. Does one have to drop acid before being able to hear the things MG describes?

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time has told, and continues to tell

When I started posting here a few years back I asked myself and many audiophiles asked me privately, why bother? However, just as before in the 90's, tuning has taken over the serious listener's quest for better sound. I love what I do because we always win in the battle of "Time Will Tell". Many Audiophiles who have taken the time to explore tuning after getting the idea from here have converted their hobby from a basic Plug & Play one to a Variably Controlled hobby. Even the language of the audiophile continues to evolve, talking about Codes, Pressure Zones, Room Tuning, Audio Platforms, Cable Tuning and the list goes on.

A reviewer said to me not long ago "your bringing the hobby back to practicality MG". I told him Tuning will always be here, High End Audio just needs a kick in the butt once in a while. But the real proof in the pudding are those hundreds or thousands of folks who actual begin to tune. Every day, or close to, someone gets ahold of me asking why hasn't this already become the norm? Well, it has already been becoming the new norm. It's just that many of these hobbyist after starting to tune have no use for the expensive purchasing hobby any more. I mean when you see listeners tuning Sherwood receivers and Magnavox CDPs and either competing with or blowing away the big buck systems they have, it gets in the neighborhood gossip gab pretty fast. To me it's interesting that this part of the hobby got sidetracked for so many years while I went off and did studios and other projects. It's like they fell right back into the same sin of Amp of the Month Club. Now though we're seeing the hobbyist getting back on track again, and people aren't as shy about their findings.

The internet is changing this hobby, and changing it fast. It will just take a few more internet jet setters to set things right. Right meaning, to quote a new tunable room client, "it's not the components, it's the method".

So to respond to the poster above. If acid gets you there, more power to you. Fact is this hobby is a variable one, along with the music it plays. Those trying to put any other spins on it, like the reviewers did by supporting discrete only fixed one sound systems, are also the ones getting egg all over their faces, discrediting themselves in front of the whole hobby. Shoot, in front of the whole industry it appears.

anyway, thanks Stereophile for letting me post here from time to time

Michael Green
www.michaelgreenaudio.net

Allen Fant
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Joined: Sep 12 2010 - 3:42pm
Good to see you, as always,

Good to see you, as always, MG
will you be updating your website? I am looking forward in reading more about the Music reviews.

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